104801-the-game-is-in-a-bad-way-sadly-its-not-carbines-fault
Content ---- ---- Coffee thief! After him! Good post, OP. Sloppy, but good post. | |} ---- ---- ---- Yea, sadly most warrior tank I knew quit because... well... they couldn't tank with current setup. Most espers rolled from dps to heals, others quit. Most SS rolled from heals to dps, or quit. Sadly, the problem is in class balance. Who wants to be the lowest DPS no matter what you do? Who wants to be the worst tank no matter how well you play? Who wants to fight that much harder to compete with someone who can seemingly spam one button and win? Most people interested will buy the game and play from what I've noticed. Some wait for release and read multiple sites, but those usually don't buy anything unless it's super popular. | |} ---- ---- ---- I wanted 40 mans myself. I haven't even made it to 20 mans yet. Don't think I'm going to see any raid content at this rate either. Kind of sad because that was the whole reason I bought this game. | |} ---- In all fairness some of these people couldn't use a computer when wow was released lol. | |} ---- All people came here for was the Raids. All they had to do was give us tough Raids. No one wanted a bunch of freakin gates and unrewarding unpuggable content. So this is where I am now. No more excuses for them. They dropped the ball. Blizzard didn't force a fumble lol | |} ---- ---- Keep plugging away. If you need into a raiding guild, they aren't impossible to find. Most of the players are just hitting 50 or working raid attunement. I remember this happening in WoW as well. People said there just weren't enough raiding guilds. That was before everyone and their mother was 60, and everyone had a raiding guild of some description, usually sitting somewhere around Baron Geddon wondering why half the raid was dying all of a sudden. | |} ---- i agree with you their. | |} ---- In one, lost interest in SIlver Vets. Was invited to biggest one on server today, just no interest in it anymore. Mainly due to being out DPS'ed by a fresh 50 Engineer couple weeks ago after I had been farming for a few weeks to get gear good enough to run SIlvers with. I kind of just watched the parse, checked the wildstar logs, read patch notes and gave up. Heavy armor classes outdamaging light armor classes is just... what? | |} ---- ---- ---- Heavy armor classes don't necessarily do less damage in any game (for those that weren't around when you couldn't walk a ret paladin into a raid to save your life). They have heavier armor to mitigate the damage they tend to eat at closer ranges. It's all defensive, rather than offensive. Engineers just got a pretty decisive damage buff. Class balance will be class balance. If it was enough to quit over, I wouldn't have made it through FFXI, let alone WoW. | |} ---- ---- Ahhhh, the good old days of WoW class balance cycles taking 6 months for them to fix anything. And hey. We took ONE ret paladin into Sunwell for Replenishment. That's good enough right? | |} ---- Reckoning bombs on world bosses FTW. | |} ---- I fail to see how trying to encourage people to stick it out and give the developers a chance to get this fixed as trolling or cancerous, and i already apologized to the grammar nazis, so please explain | |} ---- And I loved how there was always one spec that was just useless. You always had one for PVP, one for PVE, and the other that wasn't "good enough" for either. Assassination rogues that couldn't use poisons because they'd stack off the REAL dots. Survival hunters that were always trying to roll on melee gear to buff their raptor strike, because they kept running out of ammo (I wonder how many WoW players even remember ammo anymore?) Or Arms warriors. I rolled Arms on my warrior, thinking nothing of it, because I wanted to use a two-hander. I went all the way down to mortal strike. Turns out that was three or four tiers too far, roll fury or GTFO. And that was during that phase when Fury was the spec for everything except the tank. Man, vanilla WoW was crazy. Sometimes I miss it, and all the wackiness that went with it. You never knew, from day to day, what was coming down the road when they tried figuring everything out. In the end, they just kind of made all the specs and classes fit four easily balanced archetypes, which sort of solved the seesaw problem at the expense of the flavor. | |} ---- LOL The stuff of Legends! Blizz nerfed that in hours haha | |} ---- Hunters often rolled engineers and picked up guns instead of bows for this reason too. Lol. It's probably why I'm willing to be a lot more patient with WS. I think others either look at WoW with rose tinted glasses or simply weren't there at vanilla. | |} ---- REAGENTS for buffs lol | |} ---- Rogue Stunlock autowins. | |} ---- Mace Spec Rogues early Arena lol | |} ---- Yep yep yep. Good old days of "Trying to tank on anything but a warrior? hahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAＨＡＨＡＨＡＨＡＨＡＨＡＨＡＨＡ　ＧＥＴ　ＯＵＴ" | |} ---- Or 30 second blessings. We had a holy paladin whose job it was to do nothing but cycle through raid members upkeeping critical buffs on the most important players. Sure as Hell wasn't me, I was a hunter and was usually only good for kiting. We had a ton of different possible pets, but we all had the exact same cat because it did the most damage, back when having certain pets came with certain native stats. And I was on Emerald Dream, getting the cat was Hell because we were often working as a group on a PVP server across from other hunters. | |} ---- What? Tank on anything but a warrior? Surely, you had a warlock to help tank. | |} ---- There were warlocks in WoW? ..Oh! The portable summoning stones! That's what they were?! | |} ---- With SL/SL in BC you could tank other players! I played that, it was fun (and OP) | |} ---- Its why I'm less patient. because these are the same devs who made vanilla wow, and its becoming increasingly obvious they never learned from any of their mistakes. | |} ---- This is honestly what made 40 mans work. There were always utilitarian things for the grunts to do. No need for LFR. WildStar could have brought that back! :( Yea he sucks but man is he funny! Yea she sucks but she farms the good food and we can have her dispel! | |} ---- And this is why stalkers have such a hard time now....people *cupcake* in their pants the min you bring this up. | |} ---- ---- Oh, we had a warlock. Back when druids were useless for everything, you had three kinds of tanks. Protadins if you had an open slot for someone to tank AOE trash, Warriors because they were the real deal as far as raid tanks went, and a Warlock stacking stamina to eat pure magic damage. Because Warlocks had the most HP in the game and Searing Pain. | |} ---- A few lead developers that split off at Vanilla don't make up the entire dev team for this game. And they've kinda been busy for 10 years, probably not playing WoW, nor agreeing with the "fixes" done for that game. I didn't agree with WoW's direction either. Else, I'd probably not be playing -this- game and I'd be playing -that- one. | |} ---- Whoa whoa whoa slow down. You could heal man. With 4sec healing touch. That was tons of fun. | |} ---- A game developer is someone who actually codes and designs the game (Carbine). A producer is someone who funds and operates the game (NCSoft in this case). Lots of companies, like Blizzard, are big enough to produce their own titles. Not usually the first starting companies, though, they tend to be produced by someone bigger. For instance, developer Rareware made the Donkey Kong Country, Goldeneye, and Perfect Dark games, but they were owned and published by Nintendo. Then, Nintendo sold them to Microsoft, so now they make shitty Kinect titles. | |} ---- Yes. Even a Producer is considered a "Developer." Anyone that contributes to the development of the game and profits from it. The guy that is charged with making sure lighting appears correctly, developer. The guy that contributes to design meetings, developer. The guy that looks for code that is broken and bug fixes, developer. The guy above me, I think is placing Produce and Publisher as synonymous. However, Producer is defined as: A person responsible for the financial and managerial aspects of making of a movie or broadcast or for staging a play, opera, etc. So the Publisher can have Producers working for them, but they usually don't have that direct of contact with Devs and take over managerial aspects. | |} ---- well, not agreeing is one thing, Insisting you totally had it right the first time and other designs can go *cupcake*themselves because we're gonna make it even grindier than vanilla is another, | |} ---- And SWIM faster than anyone else! Lets not forget that! That epic, insanely stupid quest across 2 freakin' continents so you could swim 20% faster in water. | |} ---- Better to have your priest with every single level of every single heal he'd ever owned taking up huge swathes of his UI with extra frames. It didn't matter, he didn't need to see what was going on on the screen. He just needed to make sure he used just enough heal and just enough mana to heal the tank. | |} ---- http://catchthatdruid.ytmnd.com/ Vanilla WoW WSG simulator | |} ---- ---- Normally they are. For example, lately, Capcom has been outsourcing games to be made by other companies. Capcom funds them directly and publishes them (they got that logo on them), but you see the actual developer's logo as well. NCSoft's money made Wildstar and they literally own Carbine Studios, but Carbine is still a division company; NCSoft doesn't really "make" this game, they just operate the machinery it sits in. It is possible, though I can't think of any examples, where different companies would develop, publish, and fund the game. Usually, if you've got the money to fund the development house, you're the company that can market it. | |} ---- USE LEVEL 4 HEAL FOR MAXIMUM MANA EFFICIENCY | |} ---- Works for eve. Just saying. | |} ---- I remember loving this. I've been playing ARR a lot lately and they have class quests. | |} ---- ---- It keeps aion running because its a massive-super-ultimate hit back in Korea. also because its f2p and even if the sub numbers are terrible, they just need a few whales to make it profuitable. if anything, wildstar's more like CoH. likely to be profitable, but nowhere near stellarly enough to justify treating it well. | |} ---- We'll see how things go. | |} ---- maybe you will. I'm leaving when my sub is up. always a mistake when I get it in my head its a good idea to buy extra sub time ahead of time. always backfires on me. | |} ---- Heh, old school grind. In Wildstar? You want to know what an old-school grind was? Wildstar's less old-school than most of the games out there. What's attunement, two weeks of running dungeons and killing world bosses? Ever have to farm up an entire set of gear because you can't even walk into a raid without a full SET of fire resist gear? Now that's old school. Wildstar's not even the grindiest new MMORPG out there by a long shot, it just seems that way because so many people are in attunement and the average player skill is still low for pugs (this game's not easy to learn if you came in figuring your position in the DPS leaderboard was the most important thing about your game). Right now, I'd say the biggest, most pressing problem is that DPS don't know how to catch heals from their healers in line with the tank, forcing the healer to try to heal each individually. The inability for DPS to really learn how to be good teammates, rather than number generators, is really what stalls most PUGs. You can teach a DPS boss mechanics, but it's harder to teach him that managing his HP is also part of his job? In most games, keeping players at max HP is the healer's job, no matter what. In Wildstar, you have to make things easier on the healer, because they don't always have enough power to keep both you and the tank standing. And the tank must survive. | |} ---- Best of luck. | |} ---- Maybe because I healed in every other MMO, as a DPS, I'm constantly looking for the green healer circle to get my HP back up. Totes respect for healers in any MMO. | |} ---- ---- It's really sad, because the job of the healer is complex for them, but simple to understand. They are throwing heals to keep the tank alive. They can see nameplates of everyone who isn't full. They line as many nameplates in the healagraph as they can with the tank in it so that they can maximize how many people get heals. Then, maybe, if they don't immediately need to throw another heal or GTFO the red, they can look at frames, see if someone hasn't positioned themselves well and is taking damage, and throw a heal. Hopefully, that can be handled with a big AOE. It's the #1 reason pugs fail. As a DPS veteran of a lot of MMORPGs, I had to seriously, seriously step up my game to play Wildstar effectively, because you need team awareness in every single dungeon. You MUST know where the healer and tank both are every few seconds (I often mark them in PUGs when I run them so people know to stay between the two marks unless they're dodging a telegraph). You can't just count on a heal materializing from nowhere regardless of where you are or what you're doing in this game. It's also sadly the one skill you rarely learn in other games. Hell, in WoW these days, it's even the healer's job to make sure people are in their AOE heal abilities. | |} ---- One of my fondest memories from vanilla WoW was when, as a rogue, I chased a druid from our flag room to almost the other side of the map and managed to nail his ass. Burned every cooldown I had; prep, my speed pots, and even thistle tea (who remembers thistle tea?), but I got him. Stupid Alliance. As to the OP's point, the fact of the matter is that casual gamers make up a larger chunk of the population than hardcore gamers, and so you can blame the players if you want, but, as has been pointed out, it's Carbine's fault for deciding to cater to a niche market. Compounding this decison, however, is the fact that they made attunement not simply challenging, but extremely grindy and tedious, and basically impossible to pug. WoW had it's fair share of end game grinding, but attunement was never close to this much of a pain in the ass (as I recall, anyway. It has been a very long time since I've seen the inside of Molten Core). I seem to remember that it was puggable, too. This game is absolutely great until you get to level 50, at which point Carbine decided to shoot themselves in the foot by implementing a vision of hardcore that just doesn't fit with the majority of players these days, even, I suspect, many vanilla WoW vets. | |} ---- ---- This in a nutshell. | |} ---- Should be careful what you're wishing for... by that logic, in 3-5 years, should Wildstar fix itself and/or become something awesome, nobody is allowed to compare to that awesomeness, or point it out... by that logic, only thing people should be allowed to recall is these first couple months right now. Games get better with age, like a fine wine... nobody's going to want to point out the smashed grape husks when enjoying their well-aged Chardonnay... they're going to be enjoying the taste and full-body of the wine itself. (I mean, let's be honest, when every other game first came out, and had issues, people pointed those out as well, then and there... WoW included -- it's human-nature, there's ironically not that much sarcasm to be found in the saying, "everybody is a critic".) | |} ---- ---- Sorry I made the game so tedious and unsatisfying everyone. I was going to have more than 4 dungeons, but I was like screw it moar daily zones instead. My bad. | |} ---- What annoys me is there isn't even a new Shiphand with these things. | |} ---- I blame you for their nonexistence. You really dropped the ball, again. | |} ---- I'm sowwy :( | |} ---- ---- Try to look at the situation without assuming you are some omnipotent entity that knows everything better. Assume that there may be a chance that they are aware of the fact that creating a hardcore game limits their market. Believe that they made their return on investment calculations based on a smaller userbase. Imagine that they understand that attunement is damaging, but use it as a placeholder to prevent something that does even more damage from happening. I'm just making up things, but wouldn't it be problematic if one markets the game as hardcore and then has raids burning through all of the endgame content in a matter of months. Especially considering that MMORPGs require a huge time investment for fixing and balancing things early on. Question yourself, isn't it possible that gear is intentionally RNG. Mainly because the gear requirements for vet dungeons and raids are actually low. Remember they tried to design a difficult game, I don't think having the best available gear equipped for every single encounter qualifies as difficult. Maybe you should stop applying WoWs BiS mentality on Wildstar because there is a lot more avoidable damage in Wildstar. One could say that the RNG is merely there to give people who repeat content some chance at a improvement. Furthermore, is it truly problematic that the game is unpuggable? I remember a certain game with a certain userbase who all disliked Pugging because it hurt the social aspect of the game. I can't remember the game nor the type of player though... Do you want to know why there are so many WoW posts, because the vast majority of MMORPG players used to play WoW but grew tired of it. Now these people are looking for a replacement, but fail to find it because nothing can compete with the illusion in their heads that is often called the glory days of WoW. For the love of god, get over yourself, deal with it and try to open yourself up a bit. Have patience and give things time. If you can't, then please stop playing MMORPGS entirely, because nothing will ever be better than your rose tinted illusion. Or you could buy the new expansion pack of WoW, only to be disappointing again. But hey, at least you will be complaining on their forums instead of Wildstars. | |} ---- Uh I'm not claiming to be some omnipotent entity. They were told by multiple people that certain things were/are going to hurt the game and they are. That's all I'm going to touch in your statement since I refuse to read the rest of that wall... | |} ---- ----